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greatbearA reader previously unknown by me stopped by and quite to my surprise hurled a 400 pound gorilla of a question in my lap that made me really think. ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
freeman8 asks “What... in-depth is masculine to you and what is feminine to you? & what makes it so?”
Not sure if you are asking me to define in-depth what to me is masculine or feminine, or how do I see these traits coming from inside a person. The former is much easier for me to explain, the latter is so tough and so fluid that there is very little that one sex or another can claim as entirely their own. Men and women can both be fighters, and both can nurture. Dominance or submissiveness is not the sole property of either sex. The last installment of Survivor pitted a gay male hairdresser against a redneck Alabama steelworker in a strength contest. The hairdresser totally trounced the macho steelworker. There are bodybuilding women out there with 20 inch arms that can benchpress 500 pounds or more. Trying to nail down being masculine or feminine to a particular sex is tough enough. It only gets more complicated when both sexes seem to share butch or femme behavior freely between them. What separates these is innate traits versus outward behavior.
At the risk of sounding a bit stereotypical, masculinity for me is demonstrated by being comfortable doing the things and behaving the way men are generally ascribed to throughout history. Providing, building. protecting, teaching and such yet not being too afraid of stepping outside of that role and extending into the female-traditional realms of nurture, domesticity, and the like. Physical masculinity is a male physique (natch), deep voices, strength, assuredness. Granted, that aforementioned female bodybuilder would possess these traits as well, and I’d consider her quite the man too in most cases.
As far as femininity, well, I guess the usual applies here too. Classic female traits, whether held by a woman or a man. Christopher Lowell, for example is a man with masculine features but some rather feminine behavior. Richard Simmons is a man with not only feminine behavioral traits but some physical traits as well. Some people see a man speaking with a lisp and waving his hands about as feminized. Huh? Walk past any group of women chatting and see if they are speaking with lisps or flailing their hands and arms around. I bet that wont be the case.
A man having lots of female traits does not lessen him in any way as a person; ditto a woman with primarily male traits or behaviors. These are things that make people unique. There is far more to human sexuality than can be neatly compartmentalized. It’s sad that people are so uptight about it that they don’t want to know more about it and learn more.
freeman8 asks “What... in-depth is masculine to you and what is feminine to you? & what makes it so?”Not sure if you are asking me to define in-depth what to me is masculine or feminine, or how do I see these traits coming from inside a person. The former is much easier for me to explain, the latter is so tough and so fluid that there is very little that one sex or another can claim as entirely their own. Men and women can both be fighters, and both can nurture. Dominance or submissiveness is not the sole property of either sex. The last installment of Survivor pitted a gay male hairdresser against a redneck Alabama steelworker in a strength contest. The hairdresser totally trounced the macho steelworker. There are bodybuilding women out there with 20 inch arms that can benchpress 500 pounds or more. Trying to nail down being masculine or feminine to a particular sex is tough enough. It only gets more complicated when both sexes seem to share butch or femme behavior freely between them. What separates these is innate traits versus outward behavior.
At the risk of sounding a bit stereotypical, masculinity for me is demonstrated by being comfortable doing the things and behaving the way men are generally ascribed to throughout history. Providing, building. protecting, teaching and such yet not being too afraid of stepping outside of that role and extending into the female-traditional realms of nurture, domesticity, and the like. Physical masculinity is a male physique (natch), deep voices, strength, assuredness. Granted, that aforementioned female bodybuilder would possess these traits as well, and I’d consider her quite the man too in most cases.
As far as femininity, well, I guess the usual applies here too. Classic female traits, whether held by a woman or a man. Christopher Lowell, for example is a man with masculine features but some rather feminine behavior. Richard Simmons is a man with not only feminine behavioral traits but some physical traits as well. Some people see a man speaking with a lisp and waving his hands about as feminized. Huh? Walk past any group of women chatting and see if they are speaking with lisps or flailing their hands and arms around. I bet that wont be the case.
A man having lots of female traits does not lessen him in any way as a person; ditto a woman with primarily male traits or behaviors. These are things that make people unique. There is far more to human sexuality than can be neatly compartmentalized. It’s sad that people are so uptight about it that they don’t want to know more about it and learn more.
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What in-depth masculine to you etc.!!
Date: 2005-03-16 07:49 am (UTC)It is not easy to put into words...but I would like to say that it seems that these traits seem to appear as a phenomena and have their essence in first the mental realm and then it manifests outwardly in physical actions!!Keep in mind that when I asked you this question... I had just read your answer to the muscular man from Virginia "Angus..." I can't remember his name exactly now...but he is a very bright computer expert. and quite a hunk!!..but he was mentioning he doesn't masculine-nize or feminine-nize men...or something to that extent, I am doing my best to relate how I came to asking you... when I came upon your challenge, to ask you any question!! so...I can say this...when I meet a man and he has masculine traits or I might say that he oozes masculinity or a manly phenomena ...I can sense that very nature in appearence in front of me or see the physical traits face-neck...back of neck arms hairy or whatever...& it's essence is of a manly nature!! It is an essence that one communicates with!! the way a man holds his body and his stride and his actions, that essence is as you said in the beginning of your text "fluid"!! Of course a lot of this is learned from the time one is a wee one, but it seems that no matter how one might try to fight or fabricate a stance....the true nature will be screaming to get out and it will have it's way... or there will be great psychic consequences... remember now that there is no judging right or wrong...we are speaking about (I believe) essence-phenonmena(which is also another 300 pound gorilla...for sure!!
The same can be said for the feminine...even though I am sexually attracted to men, I can tell when a woman oozes femininity!! I will say here that in the gay realm it does appear that some do have of course a feminine way about them, but it is seems as an exaggerated feminine behavior!! I also remember seeing a war movie with Clint Eastwood in it and I said to my brother at the time "If he we're any more masculine, he would explode"!! Now It's not to put men down or women down for having these same traits...it is nature or nature of that particular human being... male or female and their essence or phenomena!!
As you said it really is (I will say one more time) "fluid" and can manifest in oh so many ways, take for instance a cross dresser, they like to dress-up in women's clothes...and they usually are attracted to women sexually!! I have heard from a straight male friend of mine that he feels like he is a lesbian, he love's women so much....wrap your mind around that one!!
So....It seems that these words do the most for me in getting (a little...) under the surface of this question of masculine and feminine...nature-mental/phenomena-& essence of behavior which is a practiced thing...now here comes the big twist from me....I don't think practiced here only in this body, but in subsequent bodies in previous births, practised and practised and practised and to me... this is where the answer comes about someone being feminine in a male body and masculine in a female body and all of the various possibilities in that vast gene pool we are all pulling from!!Now you may think that this is far-fetched...but, it answers it for me, so...How about adding another 300 pound gorilla to the mix...phew...
Re: What in-depth masculine to you etc.!!
Date: 2005-03-16 01:08 pm (UTC)I think the reality of gay men is that we tend to fall somewhere more toward the feminine side -- not in the way we act necessarily but in our fundamental craving for a man's company - sexually, emotionally, spiritually, etc.
I believe I am masculine in many respects and in others I too could be described as feminine. I have a penchant for the arts, for theater, for singing, etc. But I sing Bass (not that anyone who sings tenor is feminine - please don't take me there)... I have played many of Shakespeare's leading roles. At the same time, I would thoroughly enjoy playing...ohhh...Herod in Jesus Christ Superstar because it would be FUN!
So I coined the phrase "gay masculine" -- I'm a guy -- like being a guy -- like doing some guy things -- but at the same time, I'm gay and I like being gay and doing "gay" things.
It's about balance... yin/yang...
Re: What in-depth is masculine to you etc.!!
Date: 2005-03-16 09:10 pm (UTC)Whatever leanings we have or what get's us turned on is indelible to each of us!!One might say "The dye is cast...so be it...Be Happy!!
I am glad that you are satisfied with who you are and what you like, I feel that I am too!! I've had to be very strong to EVERYBODY to be who I am!!!LOL!!! Of course we could go deeper and deeper into these subjects and some revealations would come...such as "What is essence...What is nature, & what is human mental phenomena and where does it come from!!! So...You seem very balanced and pleased with your manifestations!!!
When you used the words craving for Male companionship, as opposed to say... attracted to being in the company of men...(those words are very loaded, & different) sexually-emotionaly and spiritually all of these words open up all kinds of doors for investigations, or I would say "could"...open doors!! I think it's interesting to delve into these subjects and even words to have a deeper understanding of myself and my relationship to my world and to be fearless in my investigations!!
You have a very nice personality and I appreciate your writing back to my long mis-spelled answer back to -Manic Mechanic-!! Be Well and Be Free!!