The rise of religious extremism
Feb. 3rd, 2006 06:01 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
greatbearNote the title of this entry: "The rise of religious extremism". This entry is not about the increase of religious extremism worldwide. No, this post documents the rise that religious extremism get out of me. The following entry is a raw, unabashed personal look at religion as I see it. Chances are very good that I will offend someone, chances are even better that I will offend a lot. At this point, I really dont care. Read on if you want to know why I feel this way. I caution you, dear reader, that you might not like what you are about to see.
I am an atheist. Not a 'militant' sort, mind you. I grew up without any religious influence in my life at all, though early on I had attended some church with friends of the family, mostly for special occasions or holidays. I enjoyed the music, but always felt uneasy when it came to the call-and-response nature of the priests and the members (these were mostly Catholic services). Otherwise, I grew up 'unchurched', but never felt that I was lacking in anything. As I approached my mid-late teens, I did a lot of reading about various religions and their beliefs and tenets, trying to make sense of people in the world. Still I did not see what the fuss was about. No one particular faith stood out, everyone seemed to hold their own particular 'answers' that often conflicted with other religions. To me, there was no unifying point, no 'final answer'. Just a superstition that formed over time as a product of it's beginning environment. Pagans to this day attribute and acknowledge humanity's connectedness with nature, the turning of the seasons and the responsibility one has in coexisting with the planet. This to me best explains the innate 'spiritual' feelings that many people often have, and are often exploited by others for their own ends.
It's human nature to offer an explanation for things. It's also human nature to feel a connection with one's environment that seems to extend beyond what one sees around them. These days, we live in a world where so much is known, and new discoveries abound. It was not like this in the early years of human civilization. Grandiose stories and myths were concocted as a means to explain where we came from, why we are here, etc. Everyone had their own viewpoint. Quite often these viewpoints collided, and fights would break out. I dont need to go into detail about how connected various wars and conflicts through the millennia are with religion and other irrational beliefs. It's an unfortunate fact of history.
Spirituality is a very personal aspect and feeling. It's also very powerful. People will discuss it with others and often find similarities with one another. Problems inevitably arise when something deeply personal becomes point of contention with others, especially if this issue has no basis in concrete facts, natural phenomena or common grounds with everyone. Most people have two hands, two feet, one head, etc., so there is not much chance of conflict there. Skin color, however, is a very visible trait that unites and divides as we all know. Religion unites as well as divides unlike any other attribute of people on this Earth.
I generally respect people's personal beliefs, whether they agree or disagree with mine, as long as they keep their beliefs to themselves. One can believe that Lost is the greatest show on television. Fine. Now I know. I dont necessarily agree with you, but I am now familiar with your particular line of thinking on the matter. It's at this point that we generally move on. While people's likes or dislikes over television shows can sometimes reach a fevered pitch, it generally stays pretty well contained. Not so when it comes to religion. Depending on a person's zeal in believing what they do, they quite often have to get another person to go along with that belief. Evangelizing, missionary work and the like exists to get people to think the same as others do. In the past, when I have been approached by someone trying to sell me on their particular brand of belief, I would let them speak their opening parts in order to find out what's up, then politely inform them that I am not interested in what they are offering, and we'd politely part ways. In recent years, similar evangelicals have become more 'hardcore' into their delivery, not wanting to accept no for an answer. I'd still politely decline, but like a brash telemarketer, the spiel would continue. I'd have to be firmer in my declining. On a couple occasions I was 'threatened' by various hellfire, damnation, lost souls, heartbreak, what have you. This is where the line gets crossed. I respect your right to believe in what you do. I even respect your right to try and palm it off on me, but that's as far as it goes. When it becomes a confrontation, expect a response in kind.
This brings me to my main point of contention and the reason for this entry. I watch and read with utter disgust at the behavior of Muslims who's reaction to newspaper editorial cartoons has whipped them into a violent fury. It seems that their belief system forbids pictorial depictions of their prophet Mohammed in order to prevent idolatry. Seems these cartoons depicting the Prophet in various caricatured forms is too much for the minds of these extremist adherents to handle. What a sad, sick state of affairs. This is the end result of fearmongering, hate, mind control and the downplaying of intelligence at work. A rational person is able to separate his beliefs from his actions. A sane person is able to handle criticism of himself and what he believes in. The Muslim faith at one time was the center of scholarly discourse, artistic appreciation and enlightenment. Over time this has been bastardized by people using it as a means to gain political and physical control over a society without regard to it's end result. It has resulted in mentally dysfunctional citizenry, endless wars, caste systems and human rights abuses. Christianity has been working it's way down the same road now for years, and now people use their beliefs as a crutch for blame, hate, priviledge and policy without regards to it's long term effects. The human race is on a foundering course to a new version of the Dark Ages. Religious adherents in this country are forcing their belief system into more and more aspects of general society, all the while playing the victimization game any time someone disagrees with their motives.
The radical Christians on this country tell of a 'culture war' being played out. This 'war' is one of their own making. Such beliefs foment hatred of those who do not share their same thought processes and beget violence. Failure to speak out against this from those with similar beliefs but feel this is wrong amounts to tacit approval of those actions. We are entering an era of mob rule mentality with no peaceful end in sight. Almost every social or political conflict has taken on a tone of difference instead of working on cooperation or compromise.
I know quite a few religious people. I know some who dedicated their lives to that end. What is interesting is that these people and I mostly share the same feelings on this subject. What is the difference? Where is the hate in society coming from? Why is intelligence frowned upon? Where the fuck did these people spawn from? Where is it going to end? How many lives will be lost to such incredible stupidity?
I have never seen such irrational fear in people as I do now. Part of me wants to hide from it all, yet a part of me wants to sit on the side and manipulate those people's fear somehow till they self-destruct in an effort to neutralize them. If the radicals on all sides want war, let them have at it. Just leave the sane, rational people out of it. Let them fight to their deaths. Let them draw all the silly cartoons they want. Flush all the Bibles and Qurans down toilets. Let those who want war fight that war. Once they are all dead, the world can go on a much better place in my opinion. Put a final end to all this stupidity.
I am really ashamed of a lot of people on this planet.
I am an atheist. Not a 'militant' sort, mind you. I grew up without any religious influence in my life at all, though early on I had attended some church with friends of the family, mostly for special occasions or holidays. I enjoyed the music, but always felt uneasy when it came to the call-and-response nature of the priests and the members (these were mostly Catholic services). Otherwise, I grew up 'unchurched', but never felt that I was lacking in anything. As I approached my mid-late teens, I did a lot of reading about various religions and their beliefs and tenets, trying to make sense of people in the world. Still I did not see what the fuss was about. No one particular faith stood out, everyone seemed to hold their own particular 'answers' that often conflicted with other religions. To me, there was no unifying point, no 'final answer'. Just a superstition that formed over time as a product of it's beginning environment. Pagans to this day attribute and acknowledge humanity's connectedness with nature, the turning of the seasons and the responsibility one has in coexisting with the planet. This to me best explains the innate 'spiritual' feelings that many people often have, and are often exploited by others for their own ends.
It's human nature to offer an explanation for things. It's also human nature to feel a connection with one's environment that seems to extend beyond what one sees around them. These days, we live in a world where so much is known, and new discoveries abound. It was not like this in the early years of human civilization. Grandiose stories and myths were concocted as a means to explain where we came from, why we are here, etc. Everyone had their own viewpoint. Quite often these viewpoints collided, and fights would break out. I dont need to go into detail about how connected various wars and conflicts through the millennia are with religion and other irrational beliefs. It's an unfortunate fact of history.
Spirituality is a very personal aspect and feeling. It's also very powerful. People will discuss it with others and often find similarities with one another. Problems inevitably arise when something deeply personal becomes point of contention with others, especially if this issue has no basis in concrete facts, natural phenomena or common grounds with everyone. Most people have two hands, two feet, one head, etc., so there is not much chance of conflict there. Skin color, however, is a very visible trait that unites and divides as we all know. Religion unites as well as divides unlike any other attribute of people on this Earth.
I generally respect people's personal beliefs, whether they agree or disagree with mine, as long as they keep their beliefs to themselves. One can believe that Lost is the greatest show on television. Fine. Now I know. I dont necessarily agree with you, but I am now familiar with your particular line of thinking on the matter. It's at this point that we generally move on. While people's likes or dislikes over television shows can sometimes reach a fevered pitch, it generally stays pretty well contained. Not so when it comes to religion. Depending on a person's zeal in believing what they do, they quite often have to get another person to go along with that belief. Evangelizing, missionary work and the like exists to get people to think the same as others do. In the past, when I have been approached by someone trying to sell me on their particular brand of belief, I would let them speak their opening parts in order to find out what's up, then politely inform them that I am not interested in what they are offering, and we'd politely part ways. In recent years, similar evangelicals have become more 'hardcore' into their delivery, not wanting to accept no for an answer. I'd still politely decline, but like a brash telemarketer, the spiel would continue. I'd have to be firmer in my declining. On a couple occasions I was 'threatened' by various hellfire, damnation, lost souls, heartbreak, what have you. This is where the line gets crossed. I respect your right to believe in what you do. I even respect your right to try and palm it off on me, but that's as far as it goes. When it becomes a confrontation, expect a response in kind.
This brings me to my main point of contention and the reason for this entry. I watch and read with utter disgust at the behavior of Muslims who's reaction to newspaper editorial cartoons has whipped them into a violent fury. It seems that their belief system forbids pictorial depictions of their prophet Mohammed in order to prevent idolatry. Seems these cartoons depicting the Prophet in various caricatured forms is too much for the minds of these extremist adherents to handle. What a sad, sick state of affairs. This is the end result of fearmongering, hate, mind control and the downplaying of intelligence at work. A rational person is able to separate his beliefs from his actions. A sane person is able to handle criticism of himself and what he believes in. The Muslim faith at one time was the center of scholarly discourse, artistic appreciation and enlightenment. Over time this has been bastardized by people using it as a means to gain political and physical control over a society without regard to it's end result. It has resulted in mentally dysfunctional citizenry, endless wars, caste systems and human rights abuses. Christianity has been working it's way down the same road now for years, and now people use their beliefs as a crutch for blame, hate, priviledge and policy without regards to it's long term effects. The human race is on a foundering course to a new version of the Dark Ages. Religious adherents in this country are forcing their belief system into more and more aspects of general society, all the while playing the victimization game any time someone disagrees with their motives.
The radical Christians on this country tell of a 'culture war' being played out. This 'war' is one of their own making. Such beliefs foment hatred of those who do not share their same thought processes and beget violence. Failure to speak out against this from those with similar beliefs but feel this is wrong amounts to tacit approval of those actions. We are entering an era of mob rule mentality with no peaceful end in sight. Almost every social or political conflict has taken on a tone of difference instead of working on cooperation or compromise.
I know quite a few religious people. I know some who dedicated their lives to that end. What is interesting is that these people and I mostly share the same feelings on this subject. What is the difference? Where is the hate in society coming from? Why is intelligence frowned upon? Where the fuck did these people spawn from? Where is it going to end? How many lives will be lost to such incredible stupidity?
I have never seen such irrational fear in people as I do now. Part of me wants to hide from it all, yet a part of me wants to sit on the side and manipulate those people's fear somehow till they self-destruct in an effort to neutralize them. If the radicals on all sides want war, let them have at it. Just leave the sane, rational people out of it. Let them fight to their deaths. Let them draw all the silly cartoons they want. Flush all the Bibles and Qurans down toilets. Let those who want war fight that war. Once they are all dead, the world can go on a much better place in my opinion. Put a final end to all this stupidity.
I am really ashamed of a lot of people on this planet.
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no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 03:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 03:43 am (UTC)That said, what I truly believe is when a Christian, is not to judge, nor to flaunt it, but to simply practice, to the best of your ability, being the best person you know how to be and realize that you aren't perfect and try not to judge others as you wouldn't want to be judged. That kind of thing.
Sadly, many don't get it and it's a sad fact. My oldest sister is a Fundie, wasn't initially but became one after remarrying. For a while there they tried, she especially, to make us adhear to their beliefs, rather than adjust her outlook to ours to some extent, which I think is wrong. It's gotten to a point where we simply don't discuss religtion with them anymore as a result. She and I had some words over my being gay when I first came out and one of those was "how can you be gay and a Christian?" I say I can and am so there. :-)
I do agree with you in sooo many ways, but from a Christian point of view. In fact, just this past weekend at Mom's we had two women come to the door and when one of them began to talk about the Bible, I immediately said I'm not interested and slammed the screen door shut. Prolly Mormans although I don't recall seeing the name tags although both had on similar coats. Jahovah Witnessess will get similar treatment as well.
I've always wondered why some religions go to such ends to "recruit" others if they were really good at what they do, why the need to recruit in the first place?
I sooo value your candor on subjects like this. Makes for a great conversation, painful or no.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 04:14 am (UTC)I do believe there are people of faith who are sincere and openminded; the problem is that all too often they're shouted down by the radical freak contingent. I'm wondering if you're familiar with retired Episcopal Bishop John S. Spong - I first encountered him as a guest on Bill Maher's old show "Politically Incorrect" and was stunned; here was a clearly religious man who didn't feel the need to beat people over the head with dogma, who said the purpose of religion was to "call people into the fullness of their lives," who said that gay folk were just as human and valuable to the Creator as any other. If there were more people like him, my view of religion might well be different.
Personally, I have much more respect for religions that do not proseletyze - and the ones that make joining difficult, in terms of having to take classes and such. These are not always the same (Catholicism requires a fair bit of study, but also attempts to convert - although perhaps not as rabidly as some sects). I have no problem with a religion saying "We think we have something wonderful here, and we're happy to share it with you." I do have a problem with rapping on my door attempting to share the "good news." (I think I truly shocked a couple of Mormon missionaries once when I came to the door disheveled in a robe - I had the flu and was in NO mood....)
If you've never read Arthur C. Clarke's novel The Songs of Distant Earth, you might find it interesting. The premise begins with a planet called Thalassa, with a human colony founded by a "seeder" probe that carried Earthly genetic material and raised the first generation. The probe's library had been ruthlessly cleansed of references to religion, the senders' intent being not to inflict the strife that had divided Earth so often on a new world. The novel revolves around the arrival of the Magellan, an actual crewed ship from Earth making a stopover on its way to its colony destination. Earth is gone, destroyed by an unexpected solar instability discovered only a few hundred years before the end, so the Magellan carries many of the treasures of Earth - including an unexpurgated library.
(I hope I won't spoil the book for you if I say that as it turns out, the primary difference created on Thalassa by the absence of religion is a severe lack of invective terms. Bodily functions [for instance] are considered normal and thus not remarkable for expressing anger or the like.)
I do feel that there is something "bigger than myself" - I call it Gaia, by which I mean the concept that all life on Spaceship Earth is interrelated and we need to look at what we do from that perspective. All humanity is truly ONE race, all humans (whether they choose to see it or not) are one family. I see no need for superstitious nonsense - whether it's astrology or religion.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 04:34 am (UTC)The only ones that would be offended by this are the people that can't look at or maybe even accept the bigger picture. One, I find it disgusting that people think their own religion is the only one, the only correct one (who made them a god). None are wrong, all are valid. Who am I or anyone to judge. Secondly, I'm disgusted that people kill because of religion...and I'll leave it at that.
In terms of this topic, You and I, and whomever else, we are the only few that get it. As for the others, I worry a little about what it all might culminate into.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 03:04 pm (UTC)That's statement sickens me. It's liberal programming. "Oh we must accept everyone and their beliefs and all the gods and goddesses of various religions!"
I just threw up in my mouth a little.
Fuck that. When these freaks stop lobbying against *my* rights maybe then I will cut some bandwidth for their retarded myths. No even then I won't. They'll still be retarded.
They're all wrong. None are valid.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 06:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 06:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 07:12 pm (UTC)Come on! We may have to tolerate other peoples' misguided beliefs - in fact we must do, and I would defend that to the nth degree - but let's not turn a blind eye and/or give them our stamp of approval. Don't pretend they are OK, please.
We need to speak out when we can not only against the extremists on the religious right but the more moderates who do little to denounce them, or even at their worst offer implied support, as seen here.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 04:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 08:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 11:51 am (UTC)It's human nature to get pulled in, but it's more constructive to set a good example for others.
"I'd rather trust a man who doesn't shout what he's found... there's no need to sell if you're homeward-bound."
- Peter Gabriel
no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 02:32 pm (UTC)There are people who pursue truth. And there are people who choose myth over truth.
The latter are the enemy. They are the enemy to us, this country and themselves.
There's a war going on. Choose a side.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 12:59 pm (UTC)Thomas Jefferson
Actually this reminds me of something I was thinking lately. That unless we Fight back, all the observations and rants and fears we have are just going to remain just that. People talk about the strides we (I am talking gay people) have made and I kind of have to disagree. We have thrown ourselves the proverbial bone. I think there's no reason to not expect a whole lot more then what we have now. What is Stonewall? It's now just a LOGO movie and a dance bar on Christopher Street. Strides = Queer Eye? Will and Grace? Strides should mean Equal rights under the law. Domestic Partnership rights, sexual orientation protection, marriage rights. Period. We need to demand what is due. And more importantly we need to get young gays to take that direction.
One could use the analogy that the American people should have learned from the "civil rights" movement--- that to deny people their equal rights is just wrong and wont be tolerated. But when you have a faction of people that identify and tout the civil right movement yet are in disagreement with "us" i.e., "How dare gay people equate their oppression with ours" it makes you wonder why? Religion? Machismo?
I think the best thing gay people can do is get politically motivated and try to do something. Dont just sit there and pretend all is wonderful. That is what happened in Nazi Germany. There are many ways we can do this. Simple ways. Example: I live in a very closeted non-gay town now. I have a pal that at every opportunity makes sure he doesn't Whisper in conversations in public places. I admire that. It lets people know that we aint gonna hide who we are. And that's a start. If every gay person on gay.con and 411 etc etc donated 5 bucks to (for example)the HRC, wouldn't that make a difference?
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 02:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 04:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 02:26 pm (UTC)You say: "I generally respect people's personal beliefs"
Why? Do you really or do you just say this because it's the nice good liberal thing to say?
Would you respect an adult who still believed in Santa Claus? No you would expect them to seek psychological help. You would think them damaged.
This whole mentality of liberal 'acceptance' is utter bullshit. Anyone who thinks Christ is coming back is an idiot plain and simple. I have no respect for them. I wouldn't even allow them in my house. I wouldn't be nice to them in public. Orthodox Jews who dress in 18th century garb and grow their little Jew curls, I point and laugh out loud at them. Fuck them and their voodoo that they use to prevent me from having rights.
And despite all this vitriol, I am still a better human being and a better american than them. Why? Because as much as I despise their idiocy, I will still vote for their right to be idiots. And that's true tolerance. It's the only tolerance that matters.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 04:40 pm (UTC)I am right with you on your last statement though.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 06:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-04 09:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-05 02:57 am (UTC)But things like the Catholic Churches' recent edict over gay priests (firmly associating the paedophile scandals with gay men) is dangerous and I blame a lot of the recent anti-gay feeling on them, because they have just legitimised it for a lot of people. Ditto Muslims, I stand with them over Iraq and have, like a lot of gay men and women, protested against it with them...I'm saddened when the leader of the British council of Muslims then calls us 'immoral' and wrong...Classic Israel issue, you can't expect a discriminated minority to feel for another automatically, sadly.
I do feel there is going to be a new Crusades-style war, and soon. Or Russia or China will nuke the US over the last of the remaining oil. One of the two...
LOL