Reductio ad hitlerum

[greatbear]

I am of the belief that Godwin's Law should be stricken from the debate and discourse law books. For those unfamiliar with the concept of Godwin's Law, it states "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one". In other words, given a political (usually) topic, as the debate becomes more and more heated, someone inevitably brings up Hitler or Nazis in comparison to the current subject, and at that point the conversation becomes unreasonable and invalid. These days the 'law' is invoked by conservative or sensitive individuals who feel their sensibilities are under attack or believe that the historical atrocities of the Nazis can not be approached or equalled my contemporary groups or individuals. It's also usually an exercise in 'political correctness' as well.

Those who know me well, know I am far from politically correct, and am not afraid to speak my thoughts on certain subects. Well, given the latest latest diatribe by Pope Ratzinger, directed at our wonderful neighbors to the North, I can see his time spent as a Hitler Youth stuck with him throughout the years. To me, he joins the Bush Administration, Fred Phelps, Ann Coulter and any number of radical conservatives heading down the same road as was taken in Germany starting in the 30s. Of course, no one is tossing Jews into gas chambers, but neither did Hitler in his early days. But, given the secrecy surrounding this administration, the boosting of the military as a power not just abroad but stateside as well, unchecked corporate power, the bypassing of checks and balances of the government, etc, one can find parallels in history during the rise of of the Nazis. As a political bloc doing whatever it takes to expand it's influence, the radical right will stop at nothing to push it's agendas at home and abroad.

Never has the phrase "those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it" meant so much.

Comments

[in-fin-i-ty.livejournal.com]

I agree that people can throw around 'Hitler' and 'Nazi' with a little too much abandon sometimes. I vaguely remember one letter-to-the-editor diatribe where someone tried to decry some civil rights activists using 'Nazi' as his term of choice. I'm like, "Uh... do you have any clue what the Aryan Nation was about?"

But yeah, I certainly have seen a bunch of things that I consider parallels to Hitler and the Nazi regime. ARGH.

[greatbearmd.livejournal.com]

True, it's way to easy to give anything Nazi attributes out of context not stopping to think just how ridiculous the comparison is, but there are quite a few modern events that can fit the description. Also, one has to remember events and moments that led to the buildup of the Nazi regime. Once the atrocities have started, it's too late.

[baeritone.livejournal.com]

I believe that Godwin's Law saves us from much unnecessary hyperbole and clouding of issues.

That said - I believe even more in calling a spade a spade. Sturmführer Ratzinger WAS a Nazi. Therefore, calling him one is simply calling him by his right name. *definitive nod*

[greatbearmd.livejournal.com]

I call a spade a spade when I see them. And no playing the rade card here either. ;)

[fjdbear.livejournal.com]

Nazi is what Nazi does. Pope Nosferatu must be looking for more Blood. ($).

[md-mancub.livejournal.com]

In making such a comparison (despite the Pope's past) trivializes the Holocaust, a horrific tragedy that took countless lives and tore the world asunder. The Pope, who is completely wrong in my book, is not drawing any sort of parallel to that tragedy or the people or the criminals who perpetrated it.

While he's wrong, Godwin's Law in this case is right. The argument has already spiraled downward into anger, so that no one outside the GLBT community would listen.

Debate what the Pope said on the merits (or lack thereof) of what he said. Only then will we able to have a respected voice outside of our own community.

While the people you mention are certainly despicable, this ain't no Holocaust.

[greatbearmd.livejournal.com]

I never did (and never would) make a direct comparison to various people and events now to the Holocaust. Instead, I draw parallels to the early days of the nascent Nazi party and their organization and rise to power. what is occurring now (government and religion intertwining, with religion having more and more influence in government, heightening of military power domestically, corporate interests taking precedence over individual interests, etc, etc) mirrors those same conditions which allowed radical regimes, be they be Nazi or otherwise, to flourish. Hitler did not pop up out of nowhere and commit the heinous acts he eventually would, instead he had a vision of his utopia and slowly built it up with his rise to power. Trying to grab power with a radical agenda generally does not work, instead supporters have to be cultivated and an instilling of 'mob rule' in the populace must take place.

While stating that Pope = Nazi will soundly diminish my perspective among others and pop up Godwin's Law, a comparison to the beginnings of life for the Nazi regime should still be considered, or the consequences could be undeniably bad.

Oops

[fingertrouble.livejournal.com]

That Riefenstahl comment was me. Stupid phone

Re: Exactly

[greatbearmd.livejournal.com]

Yes, Godwin's law is a cornerstone neocon tactic. It actually is well meaning, but it's invokation during thoughtful discussion is dangerous as well.

[le-lapin.livejournal.com]